Do you know how to ask for help? Is it a challenge for you? In this sweet, bite-sized episode, Andrea and Janelle break down very simple human experience, offering personal stories, useful steps and a convincing argument for why asking for help makes the world a more connected place. Includes a nod to the movie “Enough Said” and the book “The Field Guide to Getting Lost” by Rebecca Solnit and Betty Martin’s Wheel of Consent. You’ll hear:
-Why asking for help is a skill and a gift
-A framework for anyone who might be afraid to ask
-Why you shouldn’t always be helping your child
-The difference between requests and demands
-Why trusting someone’s yeses and nos is required
TRANSCRIPT:
Andrea: Welcome Bravehearts.
Janelle: Yes. To permission to be human. I'm Janelle.
Andrea: And I'm Andrea.
Janelle: And we're coming to you from our new location in the goddess temple. We've switched rooms. Very exciting for some of us.
Andrea: We are now in Janelle's beautiful room with her triple closet and her moss door and her macrame on the wall.
Janelle: Yeah. And my big bed with my arched bed frame. Headboard.
Andrea: Love it. Love it. Okay, so today, what are we talking about?
Janelle: How to ask for help.
Andrea: I ask for help. Such a simple phrase. I mean, the most basic of human requests.
Janelle: Yeah, isn't it so funny how we've made life so complicated?
Andrea: at least 30, maybe 50 minutes about asking for help.
Janelle: Because it's a skill that we had to learn.
Andrea: Yeah. So what made you want to do this episode?
Janelle: I've been in a women's circle, we call ourselves the power rangers for five years.
Andrea: So not to know. Power Rangers.
Janelle: It's so great. One of the husbands of the women was just like, he's like, Oh, are you on with your like, power rangers? And we just like took it. We owned it. Yeah. So, and we meet on zoom the first Saturday of every month for two hours, where five women were located in the U S Canada and Finland.
And one of the women, Trudy, hey, Trudy, uh, she's married, her kids are in college and working and she's used to being in charge of everything at her office, at her home. But she so beautifully and with such funny, witty humor, spoke at one of our calls about the vulnerability of asking for help. She was actually raised on a farm, so she was raised to be able to do everything herself.
And the paradox that she learned was that when she asked for help, she actually feels less alone.
And as she was talking, I saw myself in her words, there's a beautiful phrase I learned recently, which is that, Oh, that woman speaks for me. How learning to ask for help was actually a learned skill.
Andrea: Yeah, it was a learned skill. Did I learn it? Like somewhere I got the idea that asking for help was weak. Admitting I didn't know something was weak. It was always like, always have an answer. Always know what to say. it was as if asking for help was accepting that I was bad at something. Which was like, not okay.
Janelle: Right, of course, because why would you want to be bad at something? And why would you want someone to think that you're bad at something? .
Andrea: Right. just quick what comes up for me is, right away is just being in class. And like wanting to ask a question, but being too embarrassed to ask it. . Because I didn't know. And I was afraid that like I was the only one that didn't understand.
Janelle: Interesting.
Andrea: And I've come really far with that in, know, I'm not sitting in class anymore, but I may be sitting on a zoom or sitting with a client or someone uses an acronym. occasionally it will creep in and I'll just be like, let it go and pretend. But I'm much more comfortable just saying, Hey, I don't know what that means.
Janelle: Yes. Yeah, that's a great analogy. I have, I definitely try to pick up the context first and then ask the question if I don't understand, but I have other friends who are just like so great at just being like, what does that mean? What does that mean? And so just to point out, we recognize asking for help, Is we're just talking about like asking a question, like acknowledging that we don't know something is part of this euphemism, what we're saying of asking for
Andrea: Or that we can't do something ourselves, like carry something.
Janelle: Which is exactly where I was. Like, I agree that there was a time that I thought asking for help was weak and that not asking for help was strong. And that didn't mean strong. I would say an independent, like I am capable of doing everything myself. And that doesn't have to be physical. But I do remember time walking up five flights of stairs at our old condo because the elevator was out and we had just come back from a trip and I had like two things of luggage and the bag on my shoulders and my husband was carrying like one bag and he was like, can I help you?
And I got defensive. basically I was like, no, look at how strong I am. I got this. And a couple things came up one in the meantime, I realized I robbed him of the opportunity to help me, which he wanted to help. And I ended up at the top of the stairs sweaty.
Andrea: yeah. What further comes up for me is that, I think what most often happens to me is that I am carrying six things. I am with someone in my family. And I want them to see that I am carrying six things and offer help. And they don't. And then I just end up resentful and sweaty. Instead of asking for help.
We'll get to more of that later. It's completely passive aggressive. it does make me think of this, So funny. This movie called enough said with Julia Lewis Dreyfus from Seinfeld, James Gandolfini from the Sopranos. Just an adorable little indie rom com. But something that consistently happens throughout the entire movie is that she is a massage therapist, and she has this client who lives at the top of these stairs that are outdoor. And every time she goes over there, he's at the top, and he's watching her, and she's struggling to carry her massage bed, up these stairs. Maybe, like, 15 stairs. And the whole time, he watches her, and she struggles, and she's pissed, and she's resentful, and she's like, why doesn't he help me?
In her head, never mentions it. And it doesn't get resolved. She doesn't ask for help. Eventually, he just says, Oh, did you want some help from that? And she's like, Yes! But she basically robs herself of that help by not asking for it.
Janelle: Yeah.
Andrea: So she's creating her own struggle. She's deteriorating her own nervous system and her physical body by doing that.
Janelle: She's essentially punishing herself punishing yourself by doing it.
Andrea: Right, right.
Janelle: Yeah, not being able to ask for help, she's like, Oh, I am capable of doing this thing. And I'm punishing myself because I'm capable of doing this thing because I'm getting into the top of the stairs sweaty, about to do a massage.
Andrea: So, um, What you said, I hear yours is more about female empowerment and that sounds really good in itself. You're like, no, I got this. I can do it. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And this is what my husband did in the beginning of our relationship. I was You know, I was in my 20s, so I was like fresh out of my family life and I was accustomed to my dad and other more traditional guys who held the door open for me, who opened the car door.
First, they monitored my street crossing. They put their hand at my back to make sure I was okay and this made me feel held and caretaken and safe. term I would say is chivalrous.
Yeah, there is some chivalry there. But this was not my husband's jam right before we were even married I noticed this of course and in several different ways and I just I kind of just got used to it but we were hiking in Chiang Mai Thailand and it really came to a head and we were walking on a trail and He didn't hold the branch back for me, like it didn't pop in my face or anything, but he didn't do that, and, I was crossing this particularly difficult part in the river, and he didn't help me, and I said, why didn't you help me?
And he said, because I know you can do it yourself, and I want you to feel empowered to do it yourself. So, I see, Janelle, you were feeling that way. you wanted to feel empowered to do things yourself. Like, I'm a woman, hear my roar,
Janelle: in my example was around and carrying a bag, but it was also Like in business and in paying my taxes and being able to mow my own lawn and actually be able to fix my own sprinkler system. And there was a lot of things as a, as a homeowner that's like, I'm living alone and I'm capable of doing all of this stuff by myself.
Andrea: Sometimes I wish I felt more that way. I'm like, no, no, I just, I'm just like a partner. I'd like someone else to do that good shit, and I'll take care of other shit.
Janelle: I feel it's funny now that I'm 50 and I can now more gracefully say, Oh, I would love for you to do this thing, but I do feel. I am grateful that, for example, I was staying at a friend's house, and she's like, Oh, my God, my my garbage disposal is broken. And I'm like, Oh, I know how to fix that. And I was able to do it. And it costs 6 to get the part. And I knew exactly what part we needed. And
Andrea: That's impressive.
Janelle: Yeah, and it was one of those things where I was like, Oh, I'm glad I I do have those skills. And my pride isn't like attached, like, Oh, I have to do everything that's like this and no one can help me.
Andrea: You found a balance, yeah.
Janelle: Yes. So the female empowerment piece and the independence, like doing everything ourselves. Like I get the sentiment and I think I benefited in lots of ways from pushing myself. To learn how to fix shit that I didn't know how to do, but I think it also misses the mark in being fulfilled in a relationship, whether it's with a romantic partner or just in the dynamics of relating with another human, that if I can only rely on myself, I missed the chance to be in relationship to someone else.
Like there's a gift to asking for help. Like I'm saying, Hey, I'm an individual and I would like to not be by myself. I would like to be with someone But it requires me being able to receive the gift of their help. So not only do I have to ask for it, then I have to be able to receive it.
Andrea: Both skills, I'd say. I think you've got a formula for this and you know how I like structure, so I'm very excited.
Janelle: Yes. So I believe that asking for help requires vulnerability. Discernment and trust. So vulnerability is acknowledging that I don't have the answer. I need help or support. And there's a beautiful paradox when we are vulnerable, people like to help. So when we ask for help and they can help us, everyone wins. Discernment is who to ask for help and when.
Andrea: Can I get back to vulnerability for a little bit? So if someone's having trouble being that vulnerable, like how do you get over that, that hump? Is it about swallowing your pride? Is it about your comfort with the person? Is it about the space that you're in? I'm just gonna break that down a little bit if people are struggling with that.
Janelle: So what I'm going to invite us to do is to continue through my formula, because discernment and trust factor in to who you can be vulnerable with.
Andrea: Okay, so discernment.
Janelle: So discernment, who to ask for help when. So for example, you know, like normally if I was needed a prescription, I would have asked my husband, well, we're not married.
So when I needed an emergency prescription, I And I couldn't pick it up, I asked you, and when I needed help deciding whether or not to sign a contract regarding the goddess temple, which was a really scary contract to sign, and whether that was the right thing to do, I called my friend Sonia. And when I needed a place to stay for a few days, while I was getting divorced, because I didn't want to be home, I called my friend Touch.
Now had I mixed up the order of who I asked for, what? It would not have been as easeful and people would have either said no or been compromised. Not because they wanted to be, but just for example, like touch and Sonia lived too far away for easily go get a prescription for me right there an hour away. You were 10 minutes away,
Andrea: And I don't have an extra room and touched us
Janelle: Right? So I couldn't have stayed with you. You're like, you can sleep on the couch, but that would have impacted your family where it touched was like, yeah, come with me. and then Sonia, who is a leadership executive for the corporate companies is very clear in contracts and is really able to, like, get to the essence of something in that realm. So because I discerned who to ask for what, then it made it easier to ask.
Andrea: and easier to be vulnerable about it. Okay, got it So I think this speaks to you knowing the capacity of your friends really well and Really speaks to trusting them to set their own boundaries
Janelle: Yes. Agreed. And I actually think that that's like the star, star, star asterisks is accepting people for who they are or what they can offer. So for trust is the third piece. Had any of them said, no, Had you said, no, I can't go pick up this That's so would have been okay. Because a key ingredient in asking for help is trusting that the person I'm asking will say, no, they don't have the capacity to help me.
It doesn't mean that they don't like me. They don't want to help. It just means they don't have the capacity for it in that exact moment. I don't have to take it personally. I don't have to take the no personally,
Andrea: what I always comes up for me is That if you don't trust them to say yes or no Then you're second guessing do they really not have time?
Janelle: Or do they really want you so yeah, puts me into a position of insecurity and doubt, right? Which then makes being vulnerable really hard.
Andrea: Yes, Yeah, I see how that cycle works. Okay, got it.
Janelle: So, for example, like when I called Sonia and asked about the contract, I said to her, Hey, this is what I need. I would love your support. It'll probably be like a half an hour conversation. Which, you know, for someone might say, okay, half an hour on a phone call, not a big deal, but she's a super successful business woman who travels a lot around the world.
She's married, she's got health stuff going on. And half an hour of her time knew was actually a big ask, but I also was really know that she knows her boundaries really well and she would say yes or no. If she had the bandwidth to do it, because I also recognized, I would not have wanted her to advise me when she was stressed for time or in the middle of something else, think we think we're imposing on someone else when we're asking for help. This comes back to you. It's actually a gift, They want like, Oh, she's wants to be a good friend to me. I'm asking for help. She wants to be able to do it, but not at a cost to her.
Right. Right. But wants to so this comes back to trusting someone else's yeses or nos that they won't abandon themselves and offering to help, which makes asking for help a lot easier.
The other key in asking for help and knowing who to ask for is that there won't be a hidden cost. Or passive aggressive if I ask for help and then the person's like I'm asking for like, I want to say yes, but then I expect you to do X, Y or Z, that they're really expecting me to pay them back at some point in the future is not the genuine nature of offering
Andrea: Yeah, it's conditional.
Janelle: Exactly, exactly. And I would say that. Where the condition comes in is it's not as a tit for tat for that particular thing, Sonia now knows she can ask me and because she helps me I'm gonna do what I can to help her for a separate thing when she asks.
Andrea: She can trust your yeses and no's and that you won't abandon yourself.
Janelle: So it's actually a beautiful energetic exchange that happens just like over time in a relationship that Also deepens the quality of the friendship or relationship because we are being vulnerable with what our needs are so I just mentioned like my formula for asking for help involves vulnerability, discernment, and trust. There's one more, which is the ability to be able to receive. the help we're asking for, because that can also feel uncomfortable. One of the reasons we didn't mention this, but one of the reasons why we might want to ask for help is because we feel like we don't deserve it.
So it can be uncomfortable when someone's offering help, even if we're asking for it. And this is why I believe asking for help in general is an advanced skill, because it requires increasing our capacity for discomfort. It's a guarantee. It's a guarantee that we can get what we want, even in getting what we want.
Andrea: even in getting help. You have to be uncomfortable and then you'll get your help.
Janelle: You might be. I'm not saying it's a guarantee. You know, but like, yeah, like when someone offers help and I receive it, I'm like, Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. And like, am I gushing on and on like gratitude is appropriate, but they offered and I just have to be able to accept that I deserve what they offered,
Andrea: And I think I want to point out that when you ask for help, like anything, whether you're asking a friend or a partner or a stranger. Um, there's a difference between a request and a demand. Like, so when you ask for help, let's say you're comfortable asking for help, you have to be unattached to the outcome. You are requesting. And, they might not be able to help you.
Janelle: You have to honor their no. And if you set it up that like the expectation is that of course they're going to help. Then that really breeds resentment from experience. there's a sense of entitlement expectation that does get conveyed in
Andrea: Yeah, in tone, even. So, let's talk about receiving for a minute, just to give the Bravehearts an example. think of a time when it's easy to receive, or a time when it might be hard to receive. Okay. So let's just take the simple example of a hug. It's easy for me to receive a hug when I'm in a good mood, when I'm happy, when I'm happy to see someone, let's say, and sometimes it's not easy for me to receive a hug when I'm upset, when I'm frustrated, when I'm pouting, when I'm unhappy, when And I just don't want to take it in. I'm, I'm fighting the help, basically.
I'm fighting the receive. And so I, I just want to help the Bravehearts, like, feel what that's like, think about it on the surface, you're like, yeah, I know how to receive. And yet, when you compliment someone, like, so often, people do not receive.
Janelle: Right. They deflect it.
Andrea: Either with humor or with a reason why you're wrong.
Janelle: Okay. So I'm going to bring it into the body. Then an example of just say my neck is hurting and I would really love for someone to give me like a neck massage. And yeah, if I. Don't feel like I deserve to like that is like really imposing on someone else to ask them to rub my neck right that I can't I don't deserve to receive that much attention or touch or care, then that would be a reason I could that would stop me from asking. it's really tied to Oh, do I deserve to have my neck feel better and have someone else's help in accomplishing that? All that is behind the scenes before I even ask.
Andrea: Wow, it's all so very interconnected. Yeah, I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier. it feels safer to complain or huff and puff and wait for someone to notice than to get the sympathy and get the offer of help rather than asking. There's some danger for me in asking or yeah, it's an imposition.
Janelle: But in this imposition, what I'm hearing there is that because you're not trusting their yeses in their nose,
Andrea: Right, potentially yes, or I feel like somehow maybe I feel like I don't deserve it for some reason Or I should be able to do it myself this passive aggressiveness is just the biggest problem that I've seen where it's like so I Don't ask for help and then I resent no one helping me And then someone says yes, and then actually is pissed off about it
Janelle: That comes to the discernment piece
Andrea: And there's something that comes back to this because we've talked about open communication and transparency where we can fall into a trap, particularly with our partners, where we just want people to mind read because we're just like, Oh, we're soulmates. You should totally know what's going on in my head all the time.
And you should never doubt that it's never going to, that it's ever going to change, which is ridiculous, of course, because we change, we're changing all the time. Our needs are changing. Our physical needs are changing. Our body's changing. Our mind is changing.
Janelle: Or pleasure is changing.
Andrea: And this is just constantly perpetuated in, you know, in our society, in pop culture. So can the listener help? It seems like there is a way that the listener, when dropping in, can make this easier for the helpee.
Janelle: If you can see that someone needs help and is not asking for it, can you help facilitate that?
Andrea: Yes, exactly. So if, we can always be offering help, Isn't that easier? It's too much responsibility though on the hell on the helper,
Janelle: Because the helper is still being asked to mind read. When the person wants help and when they do it, because sometimes you don't want help.
Andrea: Right, and that's okay, too Maybe you don't want help and you want to do it yourself
Janelle: I mean, this is kind of a funny example, but I remember watching
Janelle: My mom, this is a long time ago, my mom and I were watching my cousin's like two year old, struggle to get her pants on. And she's like, I'm two year old's mom was around and watch was watching her and was like seeing her struggle. And my mom's instinct was to want to go and help the child. And mother of the child was like, No, she'll ask for help when she wants it. Like she's learning how to do this herself.
Andrea: Oh my god, so you're like breeding this from the very beginning, right? Right, like not helping when they don't ask then you're making the child ask for help And then they learn to ask for help as a skill
Janelle: everything is taken care of for us, Which does happen to a lot of us, then we a don't know how to ask for help or be assume that we're entitled
Andrea: To get the help
Janelle: To. Yes.
Andrea: It's funny Yeah, because I think there's a lot of helicopter parenting net right now where everything is just taken care of. No sadness, no uncomfort, no discomfort, no uncertainty. Don't worry, I'll take care of it. And I'm sure I've done the same thing in lots of ways to my child, and I also feel quite proud that I clearly haven't because she knows how to ask for help.
She knows how to do things herself. And when she does need help, she asks for it, even in a teenager phase when a lot of times, you know, we're trying to like give her all our insights and she's like scoffing at them. But then when she does need help, she comes. And so that to me, it's such a sign of resiliency that she knows when to ask for help.
Janelle: To bring this back to one of my favorite teachers, Betty Martin, the wheel of consent. This is part of this exchange is really like we're talking about an asking for help is like an energetic exchange of going from this kit and like from an accepting like, yes, I want to like. I have a need, I need to ask for it so then I can receive the gift of someone's generosity to give it to me.
And this is why I think it comes back to it's a skill, right? Because we're learning to not ask for help as a child as a child. Or maybe we are, but like if we're learning to not ask for help and assume that everyone's going to take care of everything for us, then we have to learn it as adults, then, because not everyone is taking care of everything for us.
Andrea: Yeah, it's, it's a little bit of a paradox because you want to raise your children in a way where they do feel held and taken care of, but not too much. So it's just this very delicate balance.
Janelle: Well, I was going to say is that. asking for help cuts actually very deep in lots of, in lots of ways, because there's also the children who have the experience of asking for help and then not having their needs met.
Andrea: Yes, and I think that's what I've run into the most is people who were neglected as children and are just like, I learned to do things myself, I am not relying on anyone that is too dangerous. I went through that for years and it didn't work. Yeah. So now I'm good. I think that takes a lot of reverse conditioning.
Janelle: Right. I mean, that's, it's like a very valuable protective parts that has come up to help them navigate the world. And so then being able to release that, and this has come back to like, it is about asking also about receiving, it requires a lot of trust is vulnerability, trust and discernment. Right. it's a skill and it's also breaking patterns that we learned.
Andrea: There is one way where the, the helper can help sometimes. All right, let me explain. So my friend Cariel mentioned this to me, um, a few months ago. Where if you're sitting down with someone, they clearly need to download, they're having a tough day, you're holding space for them, It's just you and them, and before they launch into it, you ask them, what do you need? Do you need to be heard? Do you need to be helped? Or do you need to be hugged?
Janelle: Okay, so let me say that. So you're asking them, what do you need? Do you need to be heard? Do you need to be helped? Or do you need to be hugged? Okay.
Andrea: Or a handjob?
Janelle: Or do you need a hand job? Okay.
Andrea: Just kidding. Yeah, I mean, I think that is It is a useful tool when someone is a mess and you're not sure where they're at. They're dysregulated. Maybe they're emotional and it can help frame and structure for things when they're about to sit in this space and unload. And this is not going to be true when you're struggling with your suitcase in the steps or anything like that. But I think sometimes it's hard to ask for what we need or sometimes we don't know what we need. mean, that's just a little tip that can be helpful when you're in that situation. And. You're not sure what's expected of you.
Janelle: Yeah, I love that. That feels really great.
Andrea: So you suggested this topic and a week later I found this in one of my favorite books. It's called The Field Guide to Getting Lost. It's by Rebecca Solnit and it's probably 20 years old. I found this book at a hostel in Jordan when we were about to go into Israel for, Holy Week. And This has been like a touchstone for me, my entire life.
And it was clearly delivered to me by the universe in that moment. And I keep returning to it. Here's just another proof of that. So there's a passage where Solnit recounts a story she heard told at the Zen center in San Francisco. And the story, which probably takes place in the 70s, is about a blind man that they called the Turtle Man, because he would sell these chocolate turtles to the Zen Center every year. So he'd come back the same time every year. And one day the man who works at the Center came outside of the Center and heard a voice Down the block, a voice saying, help, help, help. And he sees that it is the turtle man waiting to cross the street. And Rebecca Solnit says, and I quote, so I thought, isn't that really amazing? What an amazing life. You walk along and you reach a barrier and you stop and you just call out help.
You don't know who you're talking to. You don't know who's around, if anyone's around and you wait. And then somebody turns up and they help you across that barrier. And then you walk on. Knowing that pretty soon you're going to meet another barrier, and you're going to have to stop again. And cry out, help, help, help. And the man at the Zen center said, you know, he considers that for the turtle man, leaving the house at all, getting out of bed requires an enormous leap into the literal dark of being that person who needs help, such comfort in asking for help. And then Rebecca says, maybe if I really paid attention to my life, I'd noticed that I don't know what's going to happen this afternoon.
And I can't be fully confident that I'm confident to deal with it. And maybe if we're willing to let that thought into our consciousness, then we'll be more able to ask for help.
Janelle: Yeah, that's really beautiful.
Andrea: mean, this is just the source of so much anxiety and unrest, I'm constantly thinking about this too. Like, Oh my God, what if I can't handle that? What am I going to do? What if I can't survive it? What if it's too much? What if it's beyond my scope of capacity? And then you think about like the number of days you've survived that have been hard. Oh, a hundred percent. Some Instagram
Janelle: 100 percent because we're here talking. Thanks
Andrea: But so far nothing, however terrible, has overcome me completely, I am still alive. You know, which is to say, so far so good. And then finally, Rebecca Solnit ends with saying, It's okay to realize that life has a mysterious quality to it. It has an element of uncertainty. It's okay to realize that we do need help. calling out for help is a very generous act. Because it allows others to help us, and allows us to be helped. Sometimes we're calling out for help, and sometimes we're offering help. And when that happens, this hostile world becomes a very different place. Oh, deep breath. Thank you for all your help, my friend.
Janelle: Yeah, and right back at you, it's really, think one of the richnesses of being human, is the connection that we feel with other humans and asking for help through You know, if you're, if you're afraid of it through this little framework of vulnerability, discernment, and trust, and then being able to receive is a way to feel more connected and less alone.
Andrea: Beautiful. Bravehearts, what can you ask for help with today? Something small? Something big? Anything I dare you to ask for help and just think about what that requires of you and go through those steps. Janelle and I are available for coaching. We're available for conversations. We're available for suggestions. Always love to hear from you and thanks for listening. We love you.
Janelle: Yeah. You can check us out on permission to be human dot live. Love you.