Janelle and Andrea talk online dating apps at mid-life and how much more invigorating they can be when you know who you are, you know what you want and you don’t have to check so many damn boxes. There’s a nod to the definition of a Braveheart, an invitation to Janelle’s intimate retreat at the Goddess Temple and a mention of our favorite dating apps, including OkCupid and Feeld. You’ll hear:
-Why dating apps serve as a reflection of your own evolution
-The different--and valid--reasons we got on the apps at all
-Why saying “Thanks But No Thanks” is a sign of respect
-Janelle’s dating journey: monogamous & single, poly & married, solo & poly
-Why taking a good look at your life helps you determine who you’re seeking
-The definition of a “Comet” relationship
-Why getting specific--bathtubs and Broadway shows--is such a good idea
TRANSCRIPT:
Hello, my friend.
Hey, Andrea, what a big day this is.
We are recording in our new studio. I just named it.
Yes. Great. This is my bedroom, my closet room, actually. My bed is over there. And through a serendipitous, happy accident, we figured out that this is actually an incredible place in my house to
Yeah, absolutely. It's better. It feels more personal more sensual
Yeah. More beautiful.
Yeah more appropriate for everything we talk about
And everyone here can notice the spirit crowns. This is how I display them in my closet. These are all from Sophie Howell, spiritcrowns. com.
thank you sophie so much inspiration there
But the thing I want to talk about today,
Before we dive into
dating apps, which is today's topic.
is the definition of a brave heart.
For everyone who's been listening for a while, you may notice that we call our podcast audience brave hearts. And you may wonder. How that started or what that is and what that means. And our definition of Bravehearts is someone who is seeking or has found the courage to face the fear of confronting their limiting beliefs or breaking through societal norms.
Beautiful. Yeah, can you say that one more time? Mm hmm. That was nice.
A Braveheart is someone who is seeking to or has found the courage to confront their fears of their limiting beliefs, or of breaking through societal norms.
Love it. So, listen to that. Does that resonate with you? You are a brave heart. You are why we are doing this podcast. Yeah. We want to talk to you.
And we consider ourselves bravehearts. How being a braveheart looks for each of us is totally different, right? Like, what are the norms that I'm breaking out of versus what you're breaking out of? where are my fears versus where are your fears are different places. So it's not about any of us looking the same, like, we're not like a uniform field of Brave Hearts.
their commonality is the willingness to face our fears and front the fact that we feel like we would be more alive, more free, and more joyful if we lived outside of the box that society has put us in. Whatever box that is.
Yeah. Any box. Small box, big box. Right. Whatever your journey has taken you.
Whether it's a relationship box, whether it's an orientation box, whether it's a career box, whether it's a parenthood box,
a family box, anything. And ultimately the positive results when you are a brave heart and when you are seeking is freedom. because we do like to say freedom is the new F word.
in honor of my own journey as a Braveheart, I am hosting the very first Braveheart retreat at the Goddess Temple. It's going to be June 7th through the 9th and I am calling in 10 women to join in. who identify themselves as Bravehearts. And what we're going to do is we're going to have a intimate gathering, from 5 p.
m. on Friday to 5 p. m. on Sunday. There'll be some workshops, but we're going to receive and nurture and nourish each other, be in our womanly, chaotic, beautiful, feminine, We're going to be receiving the magic of each other because when I've broken out of a societal norm, that gives permission to someone else.
And when they have it gives me permission or others permission. So the recognition is that when we come together, we all get a little bit more permission, feel a little bit more brave to live the life that we are more seeking to live so that we can feel more wildly alive.
Nice. I mean, I hear that you can feel less alone.
You can feel less alone.
Yeah, in the breaking of your societal norms, in the breaking out of your cultural conditioning, coming out of your own cage. And that is so, so warming. it's so nice. And I urge any of your brave hearts, if you're at all interested in this, reach out.
And let us know, I'm sure Janelle will tell you where to go, but being in her presence I really can't describe it like Janelle has changed my life in many many ways but the radical acceptance and the open heartedness that exists in the goddess temple and Janelle's presence is really life changing
Thank you. And I would say, like, my path of being a Braveheart looks through embracing pleasure, intuition, and consent. So those are the three themes of the weekend and the workshops. And Yeah, for me, owning my pleasure, releasing shame around pleasure and pleasure shows up in all sorts of different ways in life.
Sensuality, sexuality, food, touch, textures, fabrics, clothing.
dancing
Yes. Yes. All right. So much pleasure. are the themes of the weekend because those are the, ways that I've had to break out of my own limiting beliefs.
Awesome
So you can come to feelwildlyalive. com and check out the page about retreats.
And I would love to hear from you.
All right. Let's dive into the dating apps. Oh, wow
Oh my gosh, can you even believe it?
No, not really. Like, I haven't done this in a while. And I am excited and I feel a little bit of an adrenaline rush even talking about them because that's what it has been like, uh, recently. So, okay. have you ever online dated before? Let's go into the history a little bit. What is your background with the dating apps?
Remembering I'm 50, so online dating didn't exist when I was in my youth. But, you know, it was definitely around in my late 20s. But I first started online dating when I was 32. www. freebiblecommentary. I still remember my friends gifted me as subscription So I got on match and eHarmony back in the day, those two. And I online dated for eight years, pretty much for like almost for all of my 30s, from 32 to 40. but then the highlight that I want to share is that I am one of the online dating success stories, if you define marriage as the definition of success, because that's actually how I met Memphis, my husband, he and I met on OkCupid, , in 2014 when I was 40 years old.
Wow. Yeah. This is not even surprising anymore, because it does happen to quite a few people.
I just wanted to say that again, I was online dating for eight years, so I'll go on this episode. I'll share a little bit about like how I navigated that. you know, he actually jokes that our first date was really an interview.
what do you mean?
By that time, I had the system down, You match, you text a few times and then you meet as quickly as possible. And then I was like 30 minute coffee date, middle of the day. If it was good, then a second date was possible. This is a, really remarkable thing is that, he and I met, as I just said, I had been online dating for eight years. He had been online dating for six weeks. in case you're one of those bravehearts who's like, what the fuck?
Like, it is possible. Like, you could be the person who just gets online and finds the person right away.
Yeah, so how was it for you in the beginning?
Getting on the apps was really scary and overwhelming, in the beginning. And dealing with the highs and lows of matching, um, and rejections and ghosting, I also really believe that the apps boost, algorithm. And I actually really believe in algorithms, right? Like Memphis and I had a 97 percent match on OkCupid, right?
When we matched, and that was great. Yeah, they still use that. Yeah. But I would also, I do believe that like when you get on, suddenly it's like a feeding frenzy. You're like the chum that's been like thrown into the, to the ocean. And now the fish are like, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.
but then after like a couple of months, then it like dies down. And then there's like crickets again, or you're just getting the same people again and again. So I would, If I was dating someone or I was just tired of dating that I would get off the apps every six months or so, and then get back on when I was ready.
And that would like lift me up again. In the beginning. It was like how to navigate the time management and the energetic of like, does that someone like me, do I like them? Did they respond? took time for me to navigate.
It really was a record of a way for me to track who I had become, Because every time I dated someone, even if it was for , a few months, which I would say is a success, By some metrics, that I would discover new things about myself. And so then after every time I was dating someone and I went back online then I would read you, not redo my whole profile, but I would make tweaks to it. I remember when I first got online, I was like into mountain biking, into traveling, into salsa dancing.
And boom, first guy I dated was all of those things. Hi Eric! but he was also a vegan who didn't eat gluten and didn't drink. And after a month I realized, oh, while I might bike or dance three times a week, I eat three times a day and food was something that I loved and our food differences felt actually pretty incompatible.
Um, so I realized that I was open for a wider variety of interests, but then I put food down as an interest, right? I hadn't recognized that I was a, gourmand or a lover of food or a foodie until I met him and suddenly I was like, Oh no, that's actually an interest of mine.
I think this brings up the question of like What are the most important points to connect on? Right? Because sometimes I think I overrate some things and I underrate others.
And I think that that's a that's a learning because of course like we're so basic all of it on the aesthetic of like What do they look like to begin with? Yeah, and sometimes you can miss some more obvious Connection points, Now the metric of at least once the match happens is like how do I feel
in their presence?
I'm amazed to navigate like, oh, what is, when I'm attracted to someone, like, does it matter that we like the same movies? Um, does it matter that we Live in a same area. Does it mean like, what is the most important metric?
And in a sense, none of it matters that much, except for the chemistry in person, which is why the dating apps, like they can, they start the thing. But I feel like when you get in person, that's when I'm like, Oh
yes, and no, you actually had a situation recently where there was chemistry, but then like their situation, like where they lived, it was actually challenging. so it was like, oh, like the chemistry didn't take away the fact that the logistics and their interests didn't align enough.
to compensate. So I think yeah, 100 percent agree that chemistry is important. But I do think finding the elements of what we want to really enhance our life is an important part, which we'll go into. Yeah, we're doing it because I think it's what we're doing now.
yeah, exactly. Okay. Interesting.
So let me ask you, you got married before online dating was even a thing. And so did you ever use apps when you got married and you guys were open?
Well, actually I use something like. Um, something on AOL, a very long time ago, and it wasn't even a dating app. It was just a, some kind of a way to meet people. I don't even remember what it was called. AOL Messenger or something? I mean, I definitely had this long messaging relationship with this guy named Paul, probably for a while, for months.
And we eventually met,
This is like circa like 2000?
yes, I would say it was circa 1999, 2000.
So we didn't meet though for a long time. And like it was fine, but like, there wasn't really any chemistry.
Um, but it was, it was a really fun experience. And I think, and I remember at the time, like my parents, my friends thinking I was, Nuts for sure like fucking nuts. Like what are you doing waiting in this random person who could be a crazy killer? And i'm just like come on
so can I just, just poison me out? let's now fast forward 30 years to where you are, and it's the same message. Are you fucking crazy?
Oh, yeah, I guess i've always been fucking crazy When we opened our relationship I was with my boyfriend for a while. So I wasn't on them and then And then we had a sabbatical and then I dove into them and I was like, oh, okay, this is fun.
I was busy with other things and so it was a dabbling you know, that was fun, but I don't feel like I got like the full experience then.
And I feel like they got such a bad rap, like at the time everyone was complaining about them.
has that ever changed? Yes.
No, that's never changed, by the way. Like, everyone's like, oh my god, I don't want to do the apps again. Like, I don't want to write my profile. Like, so, mostly it's just complaints coming out of them. I went on this disastrous date, or whatever.
So, minimal before now. And what about you, when you first opened, your marriage?
So when we, first got on the apps, when we were married, we were looking for shared experiences. but I will say that he was the one that managed them.
Well, it's been a year now since the divorce. And something inside me finally said that I was ready to date again. there's something, too, about wanting to feel, nourished, sensual. also, like, a treat, in a way, of, like, Oh, I'm, like, deserving.
I've done a lot of healing and now I get to receive something
and I guess for me, like, I'm, I don't know. I'm curious, I guess, ? I mean, I'm, I'm still thinking about my ex boyfriend, totally. And this is a nice distraction from that. Um, I wonder what's out there. I'm realizing my own tunnel vision, like, Oh, it can never be like this again.
It's, you know, it can only be like this with one person. so I'm just like waiting to see what happened. And have to say, it definitely feels really different this time.
I just want to call out there what I'm hearing because you know, you have been broken up now for like, a long time, right nine months or longer. And so what I'm not hearing you say is like, Oh, we just broke up. And so now I'm trying to distract myself. With the pain of the breakup, you're like, Oh, I've I've sat through it.
I've done all the healing I can on my own. And now you feel ready to be like, okay, I still feel something there. There's a longing there. Yeah. And you're like, but I've done enough on my own that I'm ready to start interacting with someone else
So does getting back on feel similar to last time? Because you were Polly last time too. You were Polly married.
The first time I was on the dating apps, I was monogamous and single. The second time I was on the dating apps, I was polyamorous and married. And now I'm on the dating apps as solo poly, which is single, but open to multiple relationships.
For those of you who are listening, right, realized that like, my journey might be like, what the fuck to you. But it's also just a recognition of how much I've changed, So there's also the recognition that just because I'm solo poly now doesn't mean I won't, change again in five years, like, I'm allowed to evolve.
Yeah, I love that. , it is a break from limitations. It's a freedom to get bigger, to get smaller, to move sideways, to move up. how can we just keep expanding out of that cage? And I think what you were saying is like most different thing for both of us is that setting up our profile is different now because, you We know more specifically what we're looking for and we're being specific about it on the profile.
I couldn't believe it. As I was reading, like writing this script, I'm like, Oh, this totally relates to business. this totally relates to my branding business because I was just chatting with a client the other day. Like an early entrepreneur who said, why do I need a target audience? Like, you know, an entrepreneur just, you know, designs a flyer and puts it up and see who's who responds.
And I'm like, no, that is not what a good entrepreneur does. I said to her, I'm like, who do you want to interact with? she's like, who do I want to interact with? And I'm like, those are your clients. Like you're not 23, you were 53. it is time for you to decide who you want to work with.
And. no matter what we're doing, online dating, starting a massage business, building a tech firm, who do we want to interact with? Who do we want our clients to be? Who do you want to spend time with? Like you're with your clients a lot. So it's like you better love them. it's the same thing with writing a profile.
It's like, let's define exactly the kind of person I want to be with in our profile. And basically what that's going to do is it's going to attract the right people and deflect the wrong people. ideally someone is reading your profile and says, huh, she's talking to me. Or she's not talking to me and swipe left.
So this is, it's an automatic filter without even talking to anyone.
I am an advocate for filling out your profile as thoroughly as possible. Because if you're just going on the visual, Right, then it's really hard to discern if there's another level of connection. And so if you're not offering more of yourself, like in the profile, or, you know, like by answering more of the questions on OkCupid, then you're not letting the universe or the algorithm be in support of what you're seeking.
Yeah, exactly. And don't expect someone to not just go on the visual if you haven't given them anything to work with.
So Janelle, you said you're not looking for a monogamous life partner now, so what are you looking for?
Well, you described me as solo Polly. So just to give a definition to the brave hearts, the way that I define that for myself is I am, putting the relationship with myself. First. And from that place, then I am choosing other people to be in relationship with. I'm really defining how I feel as my metric.
We are conditioned to think that we're looking for one person who checks off a million boxes. And after my last couple of years of getting divorced in love and expanding some of my definitions, I realized that I actually have a lot of my boxes checked, which was a huge aha,
This relates very directly to a narrative we've talked about in the podcast in the past, the past, where we talk about the large stack of requirements and expectations that people have traditionally on marriage, which is, Best friend, financial partner, housemate, inspiration, lover, co parent, etc, etc, etc.
And how that just is not realistic. And so this is just a demonstration, a real life embodiment of that. And you're saying, oh, he doesn't have to check every box.
right? When I look at my life, what do I have? So before I filled out the profile, I said, what do I have? And I have a masculine platonic life partner, Memphis. Who is my neighbor and chosen family, he's also my ex husband, but he provides a tremendous amount of support around householding and creating community together.
We don't share finances, there's lots of things we're not sharing, but he is there for sure. If I need him. And that's significant. And like that deserves being noticed and checked big check. Yeah. I have a new housemate. It feels like she and I are deeply connected on this cosmic level.
And she and I are not lovers, but we're going to be very connected in partnership and in living together. Another box checked. So I'm not looking for someone else to move in at the moment. That's a whole thing. I'm in partnership with you. We are in a committed long term relationship where we are in business together, where we process life and relationships and where we create this podcast together, which is the creative outlet I am most committed to.
And you hold me accountable to that. And you are my emergency contact. we see each other several times a month and speak several times a day when I'm in town. I'm in partnership with my friend Touch. She's the best friend and travel buddy and it feels like she and I are playing the game of life together.
We usually sleep, sleep over each other's houses, like once a week when we're in town, I have several other women who I don't see very often. They don't live in the same city, May and Anastasia, who have significant and important roles in my life, but every couple of months that I might see So when I look around, I feel very loved and very fulfilled. And I want to share that because allowing myself to feel fulfilled meant letting go of the form of what I thought fulfillment should look like.
Mic drop.
So it's with all of those relationships that I have that I'm like, okay, so now what am I missing?
Yeah. It's like, seems too good to be true. seems a little bit too much, so much easier to have someone check two boxes instead of 10. Yes. No, I wouldn't say it's always easy, Braveheart. It's like, it's like old habits die hard. Like, I'm just like, no, no, I want them to check all of these boxes because I want a little bit of this and a little bit of this and a little bit of this.
And sure, you can get it if you can get it. Great. Okay. But. To me, it's like less daunting to look for someone that can check two boxes than ten, obviously.
So I'll go into more about mine, but first I want to hear, where are you starting from Andrea?
So I am in a marriage now with an amazing partner, Boudreaux. We have built a community, we share a child and a home, we have so much history and love and family and life lessons and intimacy, we support each other toward our becoming. He is my long time life partner, we know each other better than anyone, and I know we'll always be in each other's lives in some way, so there's a great deal of stability and security in that for me, which is It's super important. I have you, Janelle, my partner in brilliance, as we inspire each other, push each other in personal growth, and blend the personal with the professional, and really are constantly understanding each other and then understanding ourselves, , as we share this message with the world. I have two really good friends. one, Jessica, who is just like really part of my village. She keeps me grounded. We go to yoga. We help with each other's kid. We handhold as we walk through the various challenges of parenthood and we support each other, with our individual anxiety.
, she's also in my neighborhood, which is really nice. the proximity speaks volumes. I also have just like a really dear. Just like soul friend, um, in Amanda, she understands me, she connects with me at an existential level, and she's just always quietly supporting me in my creative process and with all of my art.
she's a really good reflector, and I just really appreciate her and I see her once a week. And then I have these smattering of like, friends that I don't see that often, but when we connect we just drop in, really deeply. , I see my friend Michael on Zoom every week. I see one Leslie like once a quarter.
I see another Leslie like once a year. I see Ginger once in a while We were very connected as writers, but she's busy with two young children And so I feel like I do have a big community And yet there is still a little bit missing,
two things I want to say. One, I heard you say a little bit missing, not Oh my god, I have nothing. Cause I don't have this one thing.
It's not a black hole
It's not a black hole. so two things I just want to call out from what you just said was one, it was there's a little bit that's missing. And how many women that you mentioned, like sisterhood for you and I is a really important cornerstone of our life of our existence of how we feel less alone in the world.
And there are so many women that I didn't even mention, who are, as you said, like I drop in with on an infrequent basis, but are deep, deeply connected, and they fill me up. Sisterhood helps me feel less alone. And so thus, each of these people check a box in my life of feeling fulfilled.
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Great pointing out. Especially the sisterhood. So, what don't we have? What are you seeking? What's missing?
So at a baseline, I'm looking for people who are accepting of my unconventional lifestyle. Number one, who are skilled tantric lovers, And we have engaging, enlivening conversations, and they're spiritual, meaning that they're connected to source in some way.
But then I can get very specific because I'm not looking for one person. So for example, I was looking for a man who holds Dom energy, right? Remembering that I just finished my pro Dom course. someone I could practice being in surrender with. I found that in a dear friend and lover Gerard.
He's nomadic. And when he's in Denver, we schedule dates to practice the BDSM and the tantric arts. So yummy. The dates are so fun. And they're just that, that's all they have to be. So box checked. I also travel a lot. I thought, Oh, it would be nice to have someone in New York, Philly or Boston, since I'm going there practically every month.
And we can connect and have a fun date every few months. Turns out there's a term for that, a comment relationship is when you burst into each other's lives every couple of months, but you don't connect a lot in between meetings.
And when this guy who I met on the apps described this, it deeply resonated in my body. Yes, I am looking for that! And in this case, like this particular man is into, rope play, Broadway shows, and hotels that have bathtubs in them.
love the specificity!
Wow! don't need to go to a Broadway play all the time. If once every couple of months we get together for a night that includes rope, bathtubs, and a play, that would be so fun, and that would enhance my life. But our lives don't need to overlap more than that. So the fact that we live in different cities, he has young kids, he has two partners, like none of those boxes actually matter.
What only matters is the couple of boxes that overlap.
Wow. Just keep blowing my mind. I love the comment relationship, by the way, like that sounds awesome, so what I'm wondering is you didn't say anything about the state of these people. Are they partnered? Are they single? Do they have lots of partners or does that not matter at all?
It doesn't matter as long as they are open if they're a partner, so they're conscious, and they're ethically non monogamous. Great. Chances are someone who's monogamous is not gonna match with me. Okay. But if they're singular partnered, it doesn't matter because if I'm looking for a weekend every three months, what, I don't care how many other partners they have.
The spectrum of poly is so interesting to me.
Right, I would say that the main thing is right that everyone's in their integrity and then their communication and their transparency. That's baseline.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Awesome. Okay, so what am I seeking? I am seeking someone who is skilled in poly. Because I know what it's like in the beginning of poly and how hard it is and how much jealousy there is and how much there could be a lot of drama a lot of Just human emotions right no blame on anyone.
I mean I went through it I'd say one thing and then I'd be like, no I changed my mind And it was very it was hard. So I need someone who's skilled in poly knows who he is is very clear about that. That's something I noticed right away. I'm just like, does he know who he is?
How do you define that?
There is a settledness, a confidence.
A settledness?
Yeah. It's like an embodiment or it's a presence that I have felt a couple of times. like a, a not trying too hard to it. Like nervousness of course is okay. Although I have noticed that I'm. Not really nervous on these dates. I think partly because I know who am.
imagine probably the Hartley because you're not that invested.
It's true.
If they're not a fit, it's not a fit, like you're not taking it personally for rejection.
and you know, maybe it's disappointing, but I'm just like, oh, well, if it's not a fit on both sides, like, why am I sad?
Mic drop.
Someone who understands my devotion to my child and my husband, that's critical, has time for an outside relationship and is being honest with himself about that time. Who's done work on himself in some fashion, whether that's therapy or retreats or meditation or whatever, but like, knows he has work to do, as we all do, and is interested in working on it. Will let me relax into my feminine
So I almost ran out for reflection. it's actually you allowing yourself to relax. Like he's embodying something that's allowing you to relax into your feminine. he could say, I want you to do that. And if you don't feel it, if you don't feel like you can for sure, then yeah.
It's really you finding the masculine that's holding you strongly enough, both energetically and physically. to relax.
Yeah, and also that I won't abandon my masculine , I only need to see this person like I'd say three times three four times a month minimum maybe but like maybe more but that would be enough , i'd love to connect on music and intellect intellects And have long discussions and medicinal infused journeys and beautiful conscious sex.
I am open to single and partnered, but I would prefer partnered. and I would ideally prefer that this person has one other partner and that's it. and not dividing his time and attention between multiple people.
So you're happy with being one of two, but you're not calling in one of many.
Yeah, ideally. I'm flexible, but think it just depends on case by case, but that is what Polly looks like to me, and I think it's just a nice contrast.
Yeah. And I guess I would say that ultimately mine might be more infrequent or whatever, but that it is an ongoing relationship . I am looking forward to that with again, multiple people.
Yeah, it's very specific.
At this moment, right, this is a recognition of like, this could evolve, I could meet someone suddenly big, oh, they, they fit, like, oh, I want to only be seeing them. So which apps are we using?
So I'm using okay, Cupid, fields and seeking. And all of these allow for non traditional relationship types. I did try applying to one called Sockify, , which is a matchmaking service. I was just kind of curious. but it's like a very high end, high touch. And when I described myself, the guy was like, We're really helping people who are monogamous looking for a long term partnership.
And I was like, Oh, okay, great. good to know. and I'm not going to invest the thousands of dollars that they it turns out that they're asking for this matchmaking service. But that's also out there for people matchmaking seems to be on trend right now.
interesting. Very traditional, flavor as well.
And what apps are you on?
I'm an OkCupid and Field. That's it. Yeah. I kind of like OkCupid better. For some reason, more of the, OkCupid. Profiles tends to be filled out on OkCupid because they ask you all those questions and at least you like give a shot at a few of them
I don't like it when there's so little of a profile there. they're both fine. Like, they're just a little bit different. I would say I've had more luck on OkCupid though. just like more matches, more messaging.
Do we want to talk about the quality of the people that you're matching with? By quality I mean, like, in reading articles that you're like, or everyone's like, oh my god, like, it's such a hard, like, dearth of quality. People on there.
I've been on a bunch of dates and hasn't been any disasters. Like, everyone's like who they say they are. They're decent people. There's good conversation. they're prompt. They're polite. there's been no issues.
I feel like the quality has been very high maybe that has to do with filtering I typically though when I get on, like I message once and then I'm like, no, we get off the app. and do what I call a chemistry shock.
And that's it.
Yeah, oh my gosh, amazing. what I think we should do for our next episode, We'll do a part two Bravehearts on online dating is we'll talk about our logistics now that we're on the apps, what we're doing
so why do the apps feel different now?
The apps feel different because I feel so different. I'm so clear about what I'm looking for, that it makes it much easier to filter through the riffraff. I also have a totally different attitude. dating feels like an experiment. it's something to enhance my life.
It's not like, Oh, my gosh, I don't have a partner. Which means that there's not as much weight on every date.
so true.
Yeah. And instead I've realized it's really not about the other person.
It's about myself. I'm getting to see how I am, how I react. What do I want? How do I feel? In all these different ways. I've turned the mirror to myself instead of being like, does he like me? I'm like, how do I feel? What? What a fucking concept.
It's so funny, like I wrote this list of things to tell my daughter, before I was even pregnant, like 25 years ago. like, focus less on who likes you and more on who you like. It's like a junior high advice piece, Which is basically what you just said. And you were just putting it back to ourselves.
And somehow there's less pressure there. Now because we know who we are.
Because I'm not willing to be with someone who I don't like.
just because he likes you, so great.
So what about you? How did the apps feel different now?
mean, I find them invigorating. like a nice stranger. I always have, right? Like some people like a nice martini or a nice massage. I like a nice stranger. And so I love it. I'm getting to practice, like, Feeling rejected. It's just not really bothering me that much. Like, if it's not a fit, it's not a fit.
There's nothing wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with someone I don't jive with. We're just not the right people for each other. So there's less blame. Expressing exactly who I am isn't that hard because I know so well. I mean, writing my profile is easy because I've discerned down who I am. I've cut away the excess. I know what's most important to me. Instead of having to list like 17 different interests, I like my photos more. I know how I want to look.
Easy Saying no to people is actually one of the best ways, maybe one of the best benefits of online dating, because it helps me practice my boundaries. And I would say I'm still not great at it. Like, I still can like, uh, I don't want to just, I'm like, don't want to hurt them. I don't want to disappoint them.
But I've been really direct, like, at the end of dates sometimes, I'm just like, look, I think you're really interesting, I think this conversation has been great, but I don't feel a spark, and I just want to be honest with you. And you know, some people don't know what to do with that.
I love that.
I haven't done it on everyone, but when I feel like, you know, I'm just gonna like, take care of this now.
why wait?
That feels to me like, so respectful. Because you're actually, acknowledging his time and his feelings. And yeah, maybe he's disappointed, I think being ghosted is so much worse. or like, oh, maybe, is there something, is there maybe? And it's like, one person knows it's a no. Then like, great, like, let's cut our losses.
throw the fish back, and let's keep going.
Yeah, exactly. That my directness also comes out when I first message I say hi, I'm attracted to you I like the spirit of your profile. Check me out if I'm a fuck. Yes, let's coffee soon I live in Platt Park. Boom, that is really what I say most of the time Maybe a little extra of like he said something first that was interesting but I just do not want to go back and forth on messaging It's a pattern that I want to ideally avoid so one of my friends just mentioned to me recently that she has also become very direct when she's been online dating. And, She recently went on a date and they chatted at the end and she said, you know, I just, I don't think like you're quite what you're, I'm looking for right now.
And he's like, so why, what's the problem? Like, why isn't it a good fit? she was honest with him. She said, look, you know, you're a little, you're kind of overweight and I'm really into being fit. That's a really big priority for me. And so it just doesn't seem like a match. And she said that he relayed to her, Wow, thank you so much for telling me that, because I go out on these dates, and sometimes people don't like me, and I know this isn't always the case, but this tells me, like, okay, this is one thing that's hurting me, is not being fit.
He's like, you know, I've been overweight since my divorce, and I've been struggling with that. But he's like, you know, when you don't know, and I thought, Oh, that's just like, what a beautiful exchange of him appreciating the honesty and receiving it with grace.
he could have been a gamer who's quite happy sitting on his couch, if you like to hike, and I like to game But instead, he's like, Oh, actually, there's a version of him that likes to be fit.
And it was but he's been really sad or whatever is what I'm hearing. With
just a testament to being direct. Yeah. I tap into my intuition more and I'm starting now to attune to the contrast, like you have to go on five or 10 dates before you're like,
different
Yeah, with different people, that's what I mean. And then be like, oh, I thought that was great, but that was actually kind of mediocre because I haven't been dating in such a long time.
And so I'm like, oh, this was actually better. And also knowing that I think as we discussed recently, and I discussed also with my friend Kelly, like a good conversation doesn't necessarily tell me much because I can talk to anyone. Yeah. Yeah.
Yep, exactly. Right. And same for me.
Yeah, so it can be a pretty decent conversation and not the right match. having a good conversation is actually the baseline, but it's not actually a pass through the door.
exactly. I also feel less alone in the poly world. I'm like, oh, there are other people out there who have kids, who are professionally successful, who are leading a regular life and they're poly.
And I just don't know that many people like that.
Love hearing what you're getting out of it for me. Going on dates is showing me who I have become, They are giving me the opportunity to practice everything I have learned. In the past three years about relationships, which is a shit ton.
I'm getting to feel what it's like to ask for what I want. mean, because I know that that's like the source of my freedom, but yet it can still be edgy and vulnerable to do that. I actually also having a safer sex conversation, which we've covered in our RBDSM podcast, , on the second date deepens intimacy.
To the degree that even if we actually don't become physical, it's such a nourishing conversation. I still remember the first guy I dated last year, Chris, who I'd already known. He's like, I just feel like we just went on 30 dates.
And so it's like, Oh, right. Like we're getting so much quality. Intimacy even if it's not physical in those conversations, so I love those and I'm listening to my body instead of my mind and getting to notice how I feel in my body when I'm interacting with someone and again, like this is all things I have learned in the past.
three years, but I'm it's like I'm taking the training wheels off. And I'm now I'm out there in the world doing all the things that I know are true that I know are good for me. But I still get nervous, have some contraction, have a little bit of like, am I going to say this? Am I going to do this? all practice.
it's all practice. You said Listening to your body can you speak a little bit into how? You got to that place or how you do that in the moment when your head wants to take over
I'll say this. recently I was on a date and this is how it expressed itself. Right? It's not that I'm like so embodied in real time, but I will say this. I do think I need to like go in. as a person, we had the safer sex conversation.
Then we were physically intimate. Um, you know, we started kissing and I was like, Oh, body, how are you feeling? My body was like, Hmm, not sure. But it wasn't like, I'm not sure. And so I need to stop things, right? There's no boundaries being crossed. There was no red flag. But there was like, I'm not sure.
So then we went to the next level. And same thing body was like, Oh, how does this feel? Better mind? Okay. And so like there was this like open dialogue that was happening. I wasn't like in the state of rapture and had gone into like a trance into the cosmos. It wasn't that. I was in real time, moving forward and observing, how do I feel?
Moving forward, observing, how do I feel? And at the end of our time together, I didn't cross any of my boundaries. And I was like, Oh, I don't need to do that again. I got what I needed. And what I recognized was that wasn't as fulfilling as I'm looking for.
if I had stopped before I even tried, then I feel like I would have, cut off. Learning more about myself if I had said, Oh, I shouldn't be intimate with him because I don't know how I feel. Then I would have been judging myself about something that's not true for me, because actually, I learned way more about how I felt once I became physically intimate.
Yeah, so one of the things that we say is if it's not a fuck, yes, then it's a no, But in this case, I was like, If I'm only operating from a fuck yes, which that's actually a great philosophy to have. But I don't know how long it's going to take me to get to fuck yeses. And there's a lot of skills that I can be practicing right now. I was definitely not a fuck no, right? So I wasn't crossing any boundaries. but I was allowing myself to play in the gray. And develop skills. Because I would say, While the physical intimacy wasn't totally fulfilling. I was so proud of myself on the times that I didn't say, Oh, please do this instead.
Or, Oh, I prefer this instead. Oh, how about we do this? Like I used my voice throughout that entire engagement. And to me, that was a fuck yes of like, Oh, that's what that feels like. That felt really good.
Okay, so great. While I do like to operate, if it's not a fuck yes, then it's a no. Like, in this situation, if there can be benefit in learning about yourself from moving forward, could work.
Yeah, especially if I'm not crossing any of my own boundaries. I'm not in constriction,
There's no danger. There's no red flags. Exactly. Okay, so I hear that. And I also, important thing I heard was the pausing. You're like, oh, pausing. How does this feel in my mind? How does this feel in my body? Exactly. And whether that's five more minutes past or five more dates past, like, Oh, wait, how am I feeling?
you're doing a lot of pausing and checking in with yourself.
Yeah, especially if I had been dissociated, right? And wasn't present. that's a red flag sign for me. Exactly. And instead I was like, Oh, so I guess what I'm saying, like, the metric wasn't am I in the most rapturous amount of pleasure, though, that actually wasn't the metric.
The metric was, am I in real time able to notice how I'm feeling, and then speak to it?
Yeah, this is helping me decide whether I want to go on a second date right now. Cause I've been like, uh, waffling,
sometimes I think we need to take steps forward before we know more. And yet we can judge ourselves that we're supposed to know everything right now.
All right, Bravehearts, we've given you a bunch on online dating now, we're going to do a whole other episode with some more tactics, the logistics, profiles, things like that. If you have any questions, thoughts, conversations, or you want some data or some coaching for online dating, we could probably help you with
we available 📍 for dating?
maybe, yeah, we are. That's true. Good point. Why not say that? all right. We love you and thanks for tuning in.