Wanna eavesdrop on a Braveheart Conversation? You got it. Andrea drops in with Janelle as she processes a recent experience around another important F word: Finances. She’s not advising. She’s not teaching. She’s simply a spiritual being who’s talking about the biggest taboo topic: Money. You’ll hear:
--How her spiritual growth has entertwined with the human experience
--How she moved past her fear of debt
--Why you always get to keep the personal growth
--What happened when someone said the word “bankruptcy”
--Her stages of self-judgment and fear of false modeling
--Why losing trust in spirit/source was the scariest moment of all
TRANSCRIPT:
Janelle Orion 0:01
Andrea, hi friend, hi
friend. And
Andrea Enright 0:03
to the brave hearts listening out there. Welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea
Janelle Orion 0:08
and I'm Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:08
Get ready for some real time relationship. Woo and wisdom from the front lines with occasional tantrums and tears about how breaking rules, blurring boundaries and tossing tradition can be catalysts for finding your truth.
Janelle Orion 0:20
Let's debunk the fairy tales we were told as children and create a new map for life. Yes, Disney can go fuck itself if you're seeking permission to choose your own path. Freedom is the new F word. People and want to feel less alone along the way, we got you. Please
Andrea Enright 0:36
note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metamours have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
Hello, Bravehearts, welcome to permission to be human.
Janelle Orion 0:53
Today, we
Andrea Enright 0:55
are doing something different, something totally different. Janelle and I are doing a, what we call a drop in, like, oh, we need to drop in. That's how we use it, right? Oh, let's sit and drop in. Oh, I'll be at the water near the near the concert if you want to drop in. That's what I said to Leslie at Folk Fest, yes, right?
Janelle Orion 1:14
And usually on our podcast days, we record our podcasts and then we drop in separately, but many times you've done the drop in, which is our catch up, basically, and we've done them and we said, oh my gosh, we should have been recording.
Andrea Enright 1:30
Yeah, that's true. So having not been connected, like it's
Janelle Orion 1:35
been a couple weeks since we've seen each other, and we
Andrea Enright 1:39
already dropped in about me today, but not Janelle. So here we go. So Janelle,
Janelle Orion 1:45
here we go, yes, and so this is someone said to us once when they were starting out Lucian, our original brand manager, and he described listening to us as if he was like sitting on a couch, just like fascinated, like dropping in, like eavesdropping on our conversation, not eavesdropping, but, like, part of it, yeah, and he felt so special, because it was like, Oh, you don't always get to, like, listen in when two women are being vulnerable and intimate with one another. And so that's the invitation to you wherever, if you're listening while you're driving, or if, maybe, if you're at home, it's just to imagine yourself in the room with us, sitting down in a white cozy chair, just like we are, and you're part of the conversation, and you're not going to be able to ask questions. Andrew is going to ask them for you. But that's that is the feeling that we want to invoke, that I'm inviting you into a little bit of my inner world that I don't always share. Look
Andrea Enright 2:48
at those earrings. I haven't seen those earrings by the way.
Janelle Orion 2:52
I got these earrings. Thank you, Kaya. These are a gift from Sophie and Miguel for being both the bridesmaid, one of the bridesmaids and one of the groomsmen in their wedding, and this was their wedding gift
Andrea Enright 3:03
to the people. They're from Kaya, they're from pear, yeah, just a little bit different than that. Okay, okay, Janelle, what's going on? What's alive for you? As you would say,
Janelle Orion 3:15
Yeah, hmm, it's been, it's been in an intense week, as you know, I was in Philadelphia last week, and before that, I was in Boston, and I had a moment which I'll describe, but one of My relatively rare total collapses in contractions into like, panic and paralysis, tears, fear, and I wanted to, can
Andrea Enright 3:51
you describe for me, the setting? Like,
Janelle Orion 3:54
yeah, who were you with?
Andrea Enright 3:55
What time of day? Was it? What had happened? Or, like, Where, where are you? Can we picture you?
Janelle Orion 4:00
Yes. So in the moment of that, like there was, what led up to it is something different. But I'm in a beautiful Airbnb in Philadelphia with my group of sister priestesses who gathered together for a week, and we were in this, like, incredible place in in central Philly, and I was with my two of my dear friends, damasa, who you all have met, who've listened to the podcast about Burning Man, and then my other friend, Laura, and we were the only two who were there. Actually, thought I was the only one who was there at first, okay, and so we were just hanging out, but that was who I was with in the moment. What set it up precipitate at the moment is that I had applied for loan, as you know, like a business line of credit. The Goddess temple is an expensive proposition, and I took a big leap of faith in myself when I moved in here last year by myself after my divorce, and it has been my journey of the past almost 20 months to figure out how to pay for my life and for the goddess temple every single month, and I have succeeded in doing that through unconventional means, by breaking through a lot of my limiting beliefs regarding like. I used to think that my worth really like was tied to how much money cash was in one particular bank account. And so this whole journey with the goddess temple has expanded me way beyond what I ever thought was possible, what I ever thought I could achieve, what I ever thought I could a house that's more beautiful than ever dreamed of living in. It's also allowed me to see beyond, oh, my worth is tied to this one bank account or this much money that I have. Like, oh, no, I am. I realize, like on my eulogy, no one is ever going to talk about how much money I had. Like, when I die, like, that is, like, the least interesting thing about me, for sure. And so these are all limiting beliefs that I've broken through. Okay?
Andrea Enright 6:21
So I just want to reflect so So I hear that it's a limiting belief that you broke through, that your worth is tied to money, and because of that, what happened, or what did you do? Well,
Janelle Orion 6:34
what has happened is that I've also broken through the idea that, Oh, I'm a bad person. If I'm in debt, I'm a bad person if I'm carrying debt on a credit card, things like that. So this, for the past 20 months, I've definitely been getting more and more in debt, as I have been holding the goddess temple and at the same time choosing very consciously to invest in my radiance, invest in my joy, invest in clothing, things that make me feel really alive. And I've often wondered, and have been in a panic like every at the end of every month, how am I going to pay my bills, and then at the end of every month, it works out.
Andrea Enright 7:23
Let me also comment that you have invested in a lot of training,
Janelle Orion 7:26
yes, a huge amount of training, Personal Growth Training, as personal growth training as well as, like,
Andrea Enright 7:32
client service training, yeah, so you have invested in the way that you can then make more money, yes, along with clothing and joy, right? Yes, okay.
Janelle Orion 7:43
And I really feel that all of that has been actually through a deep listening of spirit like my, my my faith in God, if you will, whatever you want to call it universe, source divine, has deepened tremendously, which has resulted in a deepening of trust in myself and of my connection to Source has been very much part of it. And doing this podcast, feeling the reflection back from people, from listeners and or clients who just feel, feel the difference in my energy, of my radiance or my joy, abundance, abundance versus
Andrea Enright 8:23
scarcity? Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so you mentioned, though a minute ago that things just always work out. Can you give us an example of that, or what you mean?
Janelle Orion 8:33
Yes, so that, like, you know, my bills are due every month, and how am I gonna pay them if I if I'm making less money than what my bills equal. And so it's worked out and that I've gotten a loan, I've applied for a loan and I've gotten it, or, Oh, I've applied for another credit card and I've gotten it, or someone invested 5k in the goddess temple, and I got that. So there's been I, I've gotten enough clients that month that have covered it. So it's come through a myriad of different
Andrea Enright 9:03
situations, okay, yeah, and I've witnessed a lot of these, yeah, I can test to that yes, like, calling me, like,
Janelle Orion 9:09
I got it, yes. I just kind of quiet, yes, so and so just pay me back the buddy video me, or Yes, whatever, yes. So there has been lots of moments of, like, how's this gonna happen? And then lots of moments, oh my god, it happened. And oh my god, it happened. Hasn't been always cash, it's been credit, or sometimes it's been a loan, but either way, my joy is the same. The bills have been getting paid. Yes,
Andrea Enright 9:31
and I will note that during that time, there is moments of breakdown, but overall, not a lot of suffering and anxiety, right, at least from the outside, yes, I would
Janelle Orion 9:42
say there are definitely, have been lots of moments of suffering and anxiety, but they're so impermanent that I feel them. I feel them deeply, yeah, and then they move on.
Andrea Enright 9:52
Yeah? You allow them to move through? Yes, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. So what happens on this day?
Janelle Orion 9:59
So. What happened is that I, as my my knowing has deepened. I got the hit that, oh, there was another line of credit that I had that I had never thought to see if I could increase my line of credit on that business account. And I was like, oh, like, I got the transmission middle of the night in a dream state. I was like, okay, and I felt really so I felt confident I should apply for it, and then I ended up feeling confident that I was going to get it. It took a couple of weeks, and last week, I found out that I did not get that long, and that was the first time I had applied for something in this course of these 20 months that it didn't come through in the moment, I'm gonna, because I'm kind of, you know, it's been a it's been a few days now, so I've already processed some of it. Well, actually, what happened was I actually thought I got it. I got an email that I read, and I thought I got it, and then a few hours later, I got a call saying I didn't get it, and I realized that, like, the email was just a very poorly written email and that so like, I was like, oh my god, the magic is real. Like, I've totally supported once again. And then to be like, Oh no, just kidding. So I had that, like, very extreme high and low in that same
Andrea Enright 11:13
day, yeah, so hard.
Janelle Orion 11:17
And I think it was the next day then that I was like, Okay, well, what's going to happen? Like I had, more than any other time, put some confidence in my knowing that this was going to come through, and when it didn't come through, and I sat with that like I felt this fear to start to like, come over me. It's almost like walking through some sort of, like, gas where you're just like, oh my gosh, something is like, inside of me, and I just could just, like, feel like foggy and weird and painful and scared, and, you know, like I'm doing this with my body right now, like it just feels like it's constriction, yeah, like a shutting down. And at one point I had had a conversation with someone about about bankruptcy, and I was like, well, that's not gonna happen to me. And he's like, Well, most people who you know go into bankruptcy don't think it's gonna happen to them. So in this moment of constriction, my friend asked, well, like, could it? And just really, we did a thought exercise about it, and I felt myself just like, dive deep, like crying, like,
of,
how could that be the case? If that was the case? Like, how could I have done all of this, if the point was bankruptcy. And I've definitely know people who've gone bankrupt and who are now make 10 million a year, so like the the rags to riches, like, that was their low point, and then they came out the other side. I know that I have some, like, shame and like, Oh my gosh. Like, but if I had to do that, like, how would I feel about
Andrea Enright 13:06
that? So sounds like you had some really specific ideas about bankruptcy, from cultural conditioning, from society, maybe from your family. Had you thought about bankruptcy before? Never,
Janelle Orion 13:16
not until, like, literally, the week prior, when someone mentioned it to me and, and
Andrea Enright 13:22
do you even know, like, at that moment, did you know? Like, what does that entail, and what does that imply, and what will happen if I do that?
Janelle Orion 13:29
And the only thing I think I know, I don't even know if I know it. The only thing I think I know is that if you go, if you apply for bankruptcy, then you can't buy a house for like, 10 years or something. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 13:39
that makes sense. It feels like there's that little box many, many applications. I feel. Have you ever filed for bankruptcy? No, right? Like they're screening for that, yes, for big purchases. But that's the only thing I can think of, yeah. So
Janelle Orion 13:51
that one thing is, then the thing that would be like, Oh, then I wouldn't be able to buy the goddess temple, which has been one of my goals, because I don't own this, right?
Andrea Enright 14:00
Well, let's just revisit for a minute, if it's worth going into how you also got past being in debt. Because I know, I don't know, 10 years ago, you'd have been like, I'm not going to be in debt. Oh, two, two and a half years ago, you're like, I don't put, I don't put money on credit cards. I'm, you know, for a car or house, yes, anything else. No, correct? That was your belief, like, and what did you think about that college?
Janelle Orion 14:23
Yeah, debt was like, Oh, I'm a bad person if I'm in debt, like, if I'm not paying off my credit card every month, and something is like, doing something wrong.
Andrea Enright 14:31
How did you get over that hurdle? I
Janelle Orion 14:34
think that's like, been part of the journey of the goddess temple. Was that I felt so strongly that I was supposed to be the steward of the goddess temple, even though I didn't have the money to pay for it, and even though I was like, you know, I don't remember at the time, 10k in debt or something, which felt
Andrea Enright 14:47
like so much, right? So we're talking, I remember when that used to feel like
Janelle Orion 14:52
so much, so much, right? But I was like, oh, but something is telling me I'm supposed to take on this. Huge rent of $7,500 a month, yeah, and figured this out, and so I feel that's what caused me to change, okay?
Speaker 1 15:10
And just as a reminder, the goddess temple is, it is half of a duplex built in like 1915 Okay, so 1915 you know, it has what? Your side has three bedrooms, four bedrooms, four baths, four bedrooms, four baths.
Janelle Orion 15:28
It's gigantic. It is.
It's like, it doesn't feel ridiculous,
no, because they're very small rooms, yeah,
Andrea Enright 15:33
everything's very small. So it's very high. Has like, four floor, no, 1234, yeah. And so this is where you live. This is where you host retreats. It's where you host some of your clients, right? And I just want to remind people what the goddess temple
Janelle Orion 15:46
really is, yes, but I will say hosting retreats and hosting clients. When I took on this lease, I didn't have clients and I didn't right exactly, but so that's been part of the unfolding of like, oh, who I, who I am now the goddess temple. I The way I see it has like, demanded me to rise, yes, to become the woman that I am today.
Andrea Enright 16:07
I absolutely agree, and I've seen that happen, because I remember in the beginning thinking, What are you doing? Just what do you want? You can't do this, this goddess temple. This is so big, you don't need this big place. Okay? So back to bankruptcy, right? So you're thinking about this. You're like, thinking about it in new light. Someone introduced you to the concept, yeah. And then what happened? Well, yeah,
Janelle Orion 16:26
so I'm standing in the kitchen. So like, Laura and I are standing in the kitchen and talking about something else. And she's like, let me just bring up, like, left turn conversation. What about bankruptcy? Have you like? Why would that be a no or like? And so that's when, like, the tears started coming and like, but this is and so this is what it would mean, and really like, what feels true, and I'm gonna get emotional now thinking about it is that it was like, is I've been trusting myself and trusting my connection to Source, and trusting and telling people invest in like. I've been investing in my radiance and look at me. I've been investing in the things that like make me feel joyful and bring me pleasure and like look at how it has happened, and that people have said to me, oh, like I'm an inspiration, like they see me and feel something. And it felt like in that moment of, well, if I declare bankruptcy, then everything I've been standing for is false. Yeah, I really feel that and that, like, what? How could someone believe anything I have said, if that's was the outcome? So there's that part super painful to think about more so than like, the judgment of on myself is like, oh, but like, what kind of inspiration am I if I'm telling people to invest in themselves and invest in their radiance and but then the other like, deeper like, part that was so painful was I feel like I've been trusting in my connection to Source this whole time, and it felt like, like in my collapse, that that was like getting ripped out from under me.
Andrea Enright 18:36
Okay, so I hear that there's a fear around self judgment. There's a fear around losing your connection to Source or or distrusting it right like and being a false model to anyone who has heard you, or who you've spoke, who's been
Janelle Orion 18:59
witness to my journey.
Andrea Enright 19:00
Got it? Okay? That's a lot. I just wanna, like, it's really big. I know how important your connection to Source is. Like, that's the most that you talk about all the time, every time we're together. And it is like your guidepost. It's the way that you continue to trust, the way that you may remain radiant. And so I yeah, really
Janelle Orion 19:26
feel that. And then the questioning of, like, what was all this for? Then, right? Like, why would I take on the goddess temple if it was going to end in bankruptcy? So anyway, that was where the collapse happened. Damasa arrived just a few minutes later, also held space for me, and she was, she beautifully reflected back to me. She's like, if you think that, like, how you've inspired me is going to be taken away because you went to bankruptcy, like, then you are robbing me of my of like, the impact you've had. Yeah, I'm Yeah, so that
Andrea Enright 20:04
that's just that, that's it for a bit. Yeah, yeah. The Thomas has said, if you think this is going to take away what I've learned from you all the inspiration, then you know you're robbing her of what she's all that she's gleaned, yeah, by witnessing you
Janelle Orion 20:23
right, and how she's gotten greater permission to live her life and to be in trust of different things and in all the things that she has felt have improved her life, because she's like, taken lesson or note from me. And
Andrea Enright 20:38
what arises in me too is that something that my husband said to me, it's like, whatever happens with all of the stuff that you're doing, your book and your keynote and your speaking and your podcast and your business, like it doesn't matter if none of it ever makes money Again, because you get to keep the personal craft. Okay? And I think that's true for you too. Does that?
Janelle Orion 21:07
Yeah, yeah, of course it does. Like, who was I? Like, you know me on all the journeys, but like, yeah, compared to two years, two years ago, yeah. Can you imagine who I was two years ago and being like, Oh, this wasn't that. This ride was ahead of not been worth
Andrea Enright 21:21
it. But I want to be nuanced in that. Like, you've been trusting source that whole time, yeah? And if this sticking away source, that's that's different than just not, you know, having money anymore, like, Oh, yeah. And so that's a deeper Exactly. It's like, yeah, it's not quite as simple as, like, oh, you get to keep the personal growth. Like, what the fuck I've been trusting source, and that source is letting me down, right? This is fucking hard. Like, okay, so keep going. What happened next?
Janelle Orion 21:46
Then? What happened next was that she was like, now you're trying to control source, like, so now you're saying that bankruptcy would mean failure, but if everything happens because source is having to happen like, then you're missing out on whatever the lesson is of the bankruptcy, if that's the case,
Andrea Enright 22:04
hello, meta, right, yeah, okay.
Janelle Orion 22:07
And so I could see how I was in that constriction, like, essentially dropped out of magic, dropped out of belief, dropped out of faith, and suddenly was like putting like structure on a future totally refused to let go
Andrea Enright 22:25
of form. You're like, No, it doesn't look like this. It does not look like B, A, N, K, yes, r, u, p, T, C, Y, yeah. It can't look like that. Can't look like that. Has to be different letters, yes,
Janelle Orion 22:34
yeah. So I felt myself be like, Oh yeah, I'm doing the thing that I would be telling someone else, like, this is what you're doing. So she reflected that to me, and then the last thing she said was, and are you actually going bankrupt today? Like, is it just a fear that you have, or is it a reality that's happening right now? I was like, No, it's not a reality. It's just a fear. Like, I can figure things out for a few more months, and then things need to change. Like what the denial of the loan shows me is that I have basically been funding my becoming my expansion, my evolution and the goddess temple, from my own resources, my money, my credit my credit cards, all of that. I have given everything to this cause, and now I have hit my limit of being able to give, and now I have to be able to receive another skill. Because, in a way, like, where my focus is going to turn is, I've always had been able to be, oh, like, there's another thing coming. There's another thing coming. This loan told me, Well, there's not another thing coming in that direction. So for this is like, this is like, the now, where I've landed after falling, is like, okay, oh no, right. There is still magic. If bankruptcy is in my future, if that is what's supposed to be, then that is also divinely okay. Let
Andrea Enright 24:18
me stop you there. So you said you need to receive. You've been giving and you need to receive. Do you think there's some receiving? You been denying?
Janelle Orion 24:28
I would say what I mean by receiving in that is I've learned enough. I've been investing in my own growth to get to this point of wherever I am on my evolution. And now it's, how can I help more people give themselves permission, yeah, to be more themselves, whether it's my book, whether it's the podcast, whether it's the coaching, whether it's the one on one, but that's more giving. I actually don't that's where I'm like, Oh, I don't know. This is the. Some vocabularies, right? Is because I'm re like, the giving is, here's, here's what I have learned, and now I'm receiving the financial payment back. Okay, right? Yeah. And so I've been doing that, I'm getting paid for various things all along, but not enough to offset the expenses. Yeah. And Jamie wheel has said something about psychedelics, which is that there's an 8080, 20 rule of you can get like, 80% of the value of doing psychedelics on your first journey, and then you really don't need to do the rest of them, because, but, like, you know, because if you keep chasing that 20% you might never get there. Yeah, what it feels like is on my own personal growth, and all the investing that I've done is I've gotten 80% of the way there, like I've gotten far enough, yeah, could I, you know, Am I perfect? Absolutely not. Is there more to go absolutely and yet, do I have enough to be able to, like, look behind me and extend my hand to someone else. Say, Hey, here's the flashlight. Here's just come this way. Yeah, one more step, and that's what it feels like, is that I've by closing the door of my own resources, funding myself, like my own credit lines and limits and all that is that. And while that's really scary, because that's what I've been relying on, that another door is opening, yeah. Okay, so it just looks different, looks different, looks different, yeah. And it's also a and the time is now, yeah, there's an urgency. Yeah, there is an urgency. Okay, I don't know. Bravehearts. What do you think has this been? Is this experiment working? Yeah, what
Andrea Enright 26:51
do you think about dropping in on our conversation? This is so it's really fascinating to see that the times, like, you coming around the mountain and learning your own lessons, right? Like learning the same lessons. Like, Oh, I thought I'd let go of form, nope. No, I'm gonna, like, I'm letting go a form again, right? I'm gonna, oh, I thought I was trusting spirit. Can I trust spirit? Oh, is it? Is it fooling me? Nope, I'm gonna trust spirit again. And I would say too that when you talked about the model, like, like, no model is perfect, right, but the model and of you being courageous and feeling free and feeling so much joy, like, has elevated you, like not in a false way, even regardless of what happens with the finances and so people, Bravehearts, your clients, me, your friends, your communities, have watched that and said, Oh, she's like figuring it out. She's figuring out her own abundance and joy amidst a lot of hardship.
Janelle Orion 28:03
And, yeah, it's funny. We did, Andrea and I did a review this week and quarterly review, and it was all these things about, like, you know, our seven areas of evaluation, right? Career, health, family, relationships, finance, spiritual, yeah, spiritual. And I was like, oh, like, finance is the thing that's, like, contracted, but everything else is actually fine. Like everything else, I have increased my capacity to be able to handle whatever's coming my way, yes.
Andrea Enright 28:37
And I'm just, like, getting this hot, like, exciting, aha moment of like, yeah. And no one gets to take that away from me. Away from you, especially when you've worked out a life management system thinks it sounds so boring, like or like an abundance aura, let's just call it that, where you've worked out a way so that when hardships come, you're like, No, I'm good, I can deal. Mm, hmm, like, that's this fucking secret of life.
Janelle Orion 29:04
So, yeah, so I would say, Yeah, I maybe I have figured out that secret of life. This moment last week was the like, like, the next level of like, like, fear, fear, fear, fear. And then eventually, and back to the impermanence. It was like, 24 hours, and there's like, there's a residue, like the feeling of actually having lost faith, yeah, in myself and trust of source has stayed with me of like, oh, I never, I hope to never feel that again. Like that was is so much worse than the judgment about getting going bankrupt,
Andrea Enright 29:42
yeah, because that's like your that's your soul, that's your heart, yes, your God,
Janelle Orion 29:47
for 50 fucking years to get here. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 29:51
yeah, wow, some big shit, I don't know. Yeah. There's still a lot going on, yeah,
Janelle Orion 30:01
and it's and so the interesting result of it, of that whole contraction, was that I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna double down on source and faith. It's like, I've put my chips in. I've put all my chips in many times, yeah? And in this moment of fear and coming out of it, I'm like, and I'm putting them back in, and I don't know, I don't know what the next three months is gonna hold, right? Freight price, you're gonna see some different things that Andrew and I are doing, promoting ourselves in different ways. Yeah, taking the podcast the next level, yes, but recognizing that that is but I'm here for, and it's what it's what's being asked of me, actually asked of me again, from source, from source, yeah, from spirit, yeah. And I do think, and we've talked about this before, Andrea that, in a way, it's like, how much did my soul cost? My soul's pretty expensive. Because if this is what it took for me to get to the point of, okay, this is how much debt you're in for you to feel like you know what you've got this I've figured out life enough to the point that I'm very clear in my purpose. I'm really clear on why I'm here. I'm really clear on how I can be in service to others. I'm really clear on all of that. And so now it's just about, oh, let me see if someone wants to, like, have me speak at their event, or wants to read my book, then that's what I have, the cost of clarity. Yes, that's the cost of clarity. Yeah, it's totally worth it, you know, but it's full of heartache and financial just, yeah, but the cost of that clarity is huge. I mean, it's our life's journey. It's, I feel like it's the whole point of being human is to come to wag. And for all of us, it comes a different moment, but it's like to get to the point of clarity, of, like, understanding why we're here. Yeah, that's it. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 32:08
right, bravehearts. What do you think this was our episode? It's a conversation.
Janelle Orion 32:13
It's a Braveheart conversation between Andrew and I. It
Andrea Enright 32:17
is, that's true. It's taboo topics, full show,
Janelle Orion 32:21
yeah. And if any of you have any questions for me, feel free to go to permission to be human. Dot live and send us an email.
Andrea Enright 32:27
Yeah. Can't wait for your phone calls. Love and we get those love you bravehearts.
Janelle Orion 32:33
Thanks for listening.
Andrea Enright 32:37
Do you need permission to be human? You got it?
Janelle Orion 32:39
Listen, subscribe and review on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, learn more about us at permission to be human. Dot live you.